Welcome to the new and improved Season 8, Episode 1 of Hidden Human! Get ready to hear insights from business leaders speaking candidly about how they became who they are today and the lessons they learned along the way. Hosted by Kelly Meerbott, PCC of You Loud & Clear, Executive Leadership Coach, TEDx Speaker, and author — most recently of Meerbott’s Fables.
On today’s episode, meet pioneers Elisa Camahort Page & Jory Des Jardins, founders of Optionality, a community of practice for experienced and talented professionals reshaping their work lives.
Get inspired with insights into corporate HR limitations, how business women and artists build communities instead of fans, and the power of having options. Transcript below!
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S8: Ep1 Transcript
Kelly Meerbott interviews Elisa Camahort Page and Jory Des Jardins of Optionality.
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Kelly Meerbott (13:01:53): Welcome to this space where we reveal our personal humanity to reconnect with our shared humanity. Let’s begin our conversation, and I am so excited about the two humans we’re going to talk to today. You’re kicking off this season! First, we have Elisa Camahort Page. Did I get that right?
Elisa Camahort Page: At least, at least, at least. I got nervous. I’m just like, here they are, and my brain gets all crazy. It’s like, oh, cool guests! That’s what happens.
Kelly Meerbott: Elisa speaks extensively, is a LinkedIn Learning instructor, author, co-writer, editor, serves on boards, is vegan, and loves purple in her hair.
Elisa Camahort Page (13:02:33): I’m repurposing it tomorrow because I’m going on vacation. So I want to have it fully purple for vacation.
Kelly Meerbott: Perfect. I love that because purple is, of course, the color of royalty. And then we’ve got our second amazing human, Jory Des Jardins, which means “of the gardens.” Take notes, everybody. She sits on multiple boards, co-founder of Lunker, venture capitalist, former CMO, CFO, and a badass dancer who busted quite a move when Run from Run-DMC DJs. Is that correct?
Jory Des Jardins: Honestly, I’m trying to figure out where you dug that up.
Elisa Camahort Page: That’s Blogger 14.
Kelly Meerbott: I’m very excited to speak with you two because of your dedication to humanity. It was ironic to me that your last name means “of the garden,” and it seems like both of you have been planting seeds all along the way. Is that fair?
Elisa Camahort Page (13:03:42): I think that’s a nice metaphor. When we started BlogHer with our third co-founder, Lisa Stone, we had a mission statement to create opportunities for women in our community to pursue various things like education, economic empowerment, and community exposure. We didn’t want to say we were going to deliver these things but create opportunities. We wanted to plant those seeds, and people could take what they needed. When Jory and I started Optionality late last year, we still had that philosophy. If you want to be inclusive, you can’t give everybody the same thing. There’s got to be a lot to choose from and rich diversity.
Kelly Meerbott (13:04:51): In my DEI work, I’ve found that everyone wants the same access, rights, and to live in peace. My theory is, as long as you’re not doing harm to yourself or others and you’re not trying to force your lifestyle on me, go live your life. But things get sticky, right, Jory?
Jory Des Jardins (13:05:45): Thank you for that metaphor. My daughter, whose middle name is Jardin, jokes about being called Olive Garden. She hates it, but it’s a beautiful name. One of the things we did with BlogHer was create space for a large community. We had stay-at-home moms, working moms, those who wanted to monetize their blogs, write books, and thought leaders. We provided resources and infrastructure without telling them what to do. With Optionality, we see similar diversity. People are shifting careers, looking for more meaning, or needing to figure out something new. We’re just there to help them get from point A to point B faster and more effectively.
Kelly Meerbott (13:08:15): I see another key piece is how you beautifully hold space and create a safe space. I watched a video of Sparklecorn, and I saw women from all different backgrounds swaying together, singing, and being themselves. It’s magical. Sometimes, we as women are our own worst enemies, but seeing grown women hold each other together is inspiring.
Elisa Camahort Page (13:09:23): Sparklecorn was a community event we brought into our official event to provide accessibility and resources. We set the tone of inclusion and holding space for people. When women aren’t able to support one another, it’s often because of overarching pressures they can’t control. In male-dominated careers, women are pressured to represent their entire gender, leading to survival mechanisms that can hurt feelings. Toxic behavior often comes from higher-up expectations.
Kelly Meerbott (13:11:58): Yes, it does hurt. I’m a highly sensitive person, and my feelings have been hurt a lot. But I try to find the potential in people and lift each other up. Seeing women who model leadership after patriarchal systems is disheartening.
Jory Des Jardins: It’s about being who you are and having full freedom. At Sparklecorn, we created a space where people could be themselves. Right now, the workplace forces us to pretend to be someone else. COVID was a forcing function that made us present with all our identities. Now, going back to covering up is hard to swallow.
Elisa Camahort Page (13:14:52): People who had privilege didn’t have to worry about childcare or flexibility, but COVID made everyone face the same challenges. It gave people a bird’s eye view of others’ struggles and provided a respite to see what it’s like to have space to think. This space and time, coupled with existential crisis, made people realize they need to build a different future of work.
Kelly Meerbott (13:16:40): Many clients now feel lost and didn’t take the time to reset after COVID. They worked more, were present for family, and now don’t understand why they have to return to the office. It’s mind-boggling. Who are the leaders that inspired you the most?
Jory Des Jardins (13:17:33): I don’t have a single shining light, but I’m excited by people who call their own shots and lead self-defined lives. Guy Kawasaki is a hero because he’s in continual reinvention mode. Christina Wallace, who wrote “The Portfolio Life,” has a portfolio of things she does and has created a structure around it. It’s about making their life happen.
Kelly Meerbott: I love that. Elisa, how about you?
Elisa Camahort Page (13:20:15): My mom was a second-wave feminist who started working when I was about 11. She was a role model for starting where you can and showing what you’ve got. My other hero is Stephen Sondheim, the composer, because he did things on his own terms and didn’t care if everyone liked him. I struggle with wanting everyone to like me, so I admire that about him.
Kelly Meerbott (13:23:19): Music is one of my love languages. What was the first song that made the hairs on the back of your neck stand on end? Jory, you first.
Jory Des Jardins (13:23:42): When I was six, my mom had a crazy record collection. I loved Donna Summer, especially “Last Dance.” She’s one of the greatest singers ever.
Elisa Camahort Page: One of my earliest memories is singing “I Love You Baby” for my family. We had Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons albums, and I wanted to be cool like my teenage cousins.
Kelly Meerbott: I sang “Bad Girls” at three years old without knowing what I was singing. The first song that gave me goosebumps was Pink Floyd’s “Wish You Were Here.”
Elisa Camahort Page (13:27:23): One of my earliest memories is my parents making me sing “I Love You Baby” when people were over. I wanted to be like my teenage cousins who listened to Frankie Valli.
Kelly Meerbott: Let’s talk about how music factors into your work. Beyonce and Taylor Swift don’t conform to the system; they create their own structure. Do you weave music into your work?
Elisa Camahort Page (13:30:00): I saw both Beyonce and Taylor Swift movies, and what struck me was how their audiences feel seen and loved. Their communities will be with them forever because of how they made them feel. It’s a powerful lesson for anyone building something.
Jory Des Jardins: I don’t want to repeat what Elisa said, but I respect how Beyonce and Taylor have navigated their careers. Wu-Tang Clan is another example. They figured out how to work together while allowing individual growth. Boy Genius has done something similar recently.
Elisa Camahort Page:
Boy Genius came together, created something special, and now they’re saying this might be it. But their records are just special.
Kelly Meerbott (13:34:34): The point is, you don’t have to conform to the system. You can create your own structure, which is what Optionality feels like. Women in their prime with great experience are often aging out of the workplace, which I don’t get.
Elisa Camahort Page (13:36:22): You’ve nailed it. When we have the most experience and expertise, we also have other desires or responsibilities. The last 20 years have seen workplace disruptions, and companies aren’t putting all their eggs in our basket. Having more optionality is a form of job and life security. It’s about humans, not assets. We saw it with BlogHer, and we’re seeing it with Optionality.
Kelly Meerbott: That’s a great note to end on. What do you two think?
Elisa Camahort Page: Let’s do it.
Kelly Meerbott: Thank you so much, Elisa Camahort Page and Jory Des Jardins. You two are amazing. If our listeners want to get in touch with you, how would they do that?
Elisa Camahort Page (13:46:59): Our website is optionality.life, which redirects to our Substack. You can sign up for membership and access our Slack. We are each our first name at optionality.life. My personal website is elisacp.com.
Jory Des Jardins: I don’t have an updated personal website, but I write a personal Substack called “Pause,” which covers marketing, fairness, and hormones.
Kelly Meerbott: Thank you so much, and thank you to our audience for listening. It’s our intention on Hidden Human to inspire you to have authentic conversations and deepen the connections in your life. Thank you all and make a great day.
