[vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_column column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_raw_html]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[/vc_raw_html][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row][vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_column column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” bg_image_animation=”none”][divider line_type=”Full Width Line” line_thickness=”1″ divider_color=”default” animate=”yes” delay=”50″][vc_row_inner column_margin=”none” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_column_text]
[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][divider line_type=”Full Width Line” line_thickness=”1″ divider_color=”default” animate=”yes” delay=”50″][/vc_column][/vc_row][vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_column column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_column_text]
Join Kelly and Doug Foresta and hear their views on how the concept of toxic masculinity is being dismantled and how becoming an ‘enlightened man’ can benefit not only you, but everyone you encounter. Hear Kelly also discuss how different types of traumas and problems can be solved by staring them in the face, enabling yourself to go toe to toe with your demons and then allowing yourself the space to heal.
[/vc_column_text][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” bg_image_animation=”none”][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row][vc_row type=”full_width_background” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” scene_position=”center” top_padding=”0″ bottom_padding=”7%” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” class=”custom-p” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”left-right” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” bg_image_animation=”none”][toggles style=”default”][toggle color=”Default” title=”Episode Transcription”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”padding-3-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_column_text]Intro 0:06
Welcome to hidden human, the podcast where we explore the stories behind the business leader. Get ready to hear insights from business leaders speaking candidly about how they became who they are today, and the lessons they learned along the way. And now, here’s your host, leadership coach and speaker, Kelly Mayer bot.
Kelly Meerbott 0:32
So I started noticing back when I was coaching with the airport, and I think that’s when we just started working together, you and I, they loved my work, right? They loved my work, and they were like, We want to cascaded down to our 22,000 people. Well, you know, I’m, I’m a really, really good coach. I like that I’m one person, right? Yes. And I started thinking about all the individual coaches that I knew who were women of colour, or women or part of the LGBTQ plus community, like Diana, who wanted to do this big corporate work, right, but either didn’t have the certifications, because that’s a big thing. Right? For these these big corporations, they want to make sure that you’re a certified woman on business, that you’re a small business that you’re I mean, economically disadvantaged, according to the Small Business Administration is $15 million a year. So there’s small businesses and micro businesses that definitely fall into that, right. Well, unfortunately, these certifications not only are time consuming, but they’re expensive, right? And I paid for them, I paid for them. So how could I use what I have the privilege, what the access
Doug Foresta 1:51
whatever, yeah, to help others,
Kelly Meerbott 1:53
to level the playing field. And then that kind of codified and I’ll tell you, it codified right after the events of January 6, the Capitol, and here’s how that happened for me. Um, you know, for a long time, and this is gonna be a little circuitous. But I just stay with me for a long time, I couldn’t figure out what I wanted to be called. Right. And my team was like, you got to be a leadership coach. That’s what you are. And I was like, Yeah, but that’s really like, it feels very limiting, right. And what I did was just kind of surrender to it, because it’s what corporate knows, right? Well, so then fast forward to January sex, this all happens and I’m watching it and you know, my background, so it was very traumatising me thinking of all those women and young girls in there that could have been, you know, raped or assaulted or harassed or by that mob mentality. And I was looking at it. And I’m like, that’s just an army of hate. And then literally in the same thought, like within five seconds, that Martin Luther King quote that I’m going to completely botch, which was like, You can’t meet hate with hate, you have to meet hate with light, like you can’t match this. Basically, what he was saying is, you can’t match the same energy and expect a different result. Right. So what popped in my head was, well, I need to create an army of love. Right? Well, the other thing that came up is, I didn’t know what I didn’t know, meaning. I truly didn’t understand the history of the horrific things that happened on our land on then on the continent of United States, like to every marginalised community, you can make up a name that was not part of the white dominant culture. Like I didn’t know that. So Arizona trauma Institute was having this class called stepping into a future free of historic trauma, which I enrolled in and put myself in right away. And it was like, I mean, you’re you tell everybody what your background is
Doug Foresta 3:52
Doug’s just so people. Sure. Yeah. As a therapist, a clinical social worker. Yep.
Kelly Meerbott 3:57
Yeah. So I’m speaking all this language that you understand. So for two days, it is detailing what the US government did to the indigenous people, to the black community, to the Asian community to the Latin x can be I mean, like, you name it, not even dipping into the subcultures. Whether it’s the LGBTQ plus community that same I’m in like, you name it, like Raven, we’ve done horrible things, right? Well, this professor that was teaching a class, beautiful woman, like, just incredible. She was from West Africa, and she said that every time she goes to her village, she brings 200 pound bags of rice, right? And everybody from the village knows that she’s coming comes to the centre of the village with their cup, just enough for them. They take that and as soon as long as everybody has their share, that’s it. Nobody takes more than they need. And she’s like, that’s true. egalitarian I’m okay. So I was like, that’s what I need to do, I need to feed the coaching community, because if I can help feed those coaches that are out there struggling, right, and lift them up and share something of what I have that they may not have, or that animal have access to, or the relationships or whatever, fill in the blank, then I can lift them in their families, they can heal more people, because they’re not worrying about paying their bills, you know, I mean, and then we can collectively lift everybody. And in my mind, it was like, okay, January 6, that’s an example of army of hate, I’m going to create an army of love, right? So these two women that I’ve admired for a long time that have done really great work around women’s leadership, and dismantling the patriarchy and all of that I invited them to be part of it, because I thought, okay, as we’re moving forward, there’s more organisations that are interested in this, and they may not want to dive fully into a transformational process with a coach, they may just want a day workshop, and they’re the people that would be the best at it. Right? So I asked them, and the interesting thing was, one of them said, Yes, on a zoom call to me. And it’s the same person that we talked about, right? And I don’t want to out this person, because here’s the thing, Doug,
there’s been enough hateful rhetoric out there like to divide us and I’m not here to judge anybody because Lord knows I fallen short of whatever perfect is, and you and I both know, that doesn’t exist many, many times. And I’m not here to stand on ceremony, all I am here to do is really bring something into people’s awareness. And hopefully, when that presents itself again, in the future, you make a different choice, right. So I saw what happened on January 6, and for me, it was extremely traumatising, like I said, as a sexual assault survivor twice, you know, well, instead of crawling up on a wall, and like indulging myself in the, in whatever, like, coping mechanism I want and I was like, I need to educate myself, that but that’s just the way I do it, right. So I come across people who do great work all the time. And I want their work to be, you know, burst into the world. And if I can be the conduit for that, that’s great. So I wanted them to be part of it. And they said, Yes, initially, and then in an email coming back, they said no, and I was like, that’s, that’s weird, but I don’t know what’s going on their worlds, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So we were having another subsequent conversation, and it’s surrounded toxic masculinity and like, I’m going to do something that Ernest o ins taught me and not make an assumption that everybody knows what toxic masculinity is. So for our purposes of this discussion, I’m going to read a definition. Okay, so that the concept the concept of toxic masculinity is used in academic and media discussions of masculinity, to refer to certain cultural norms that are associated with harm to society and men themselves, right, traditional stereotypes of men as socially dominant, along with this related traits, such as massage, envy and homophobia can be considered toxic, due in part to their promotion of violence, including sexual assault and domestic violence. Okay, so in this conversation, this person focuses on dismantling toxic masculinity. And during that conversation, I brought up one of my sexual assaults, and I brought up the torture that was involved in it, and some of the gaslighting and some of the slut shaming that happened, which again, when I was 19, I’m 44. Now just to give you the context, we didn’t have vocabulary for that I didn’t know what it was, I just, I knew that there were girls following me the class calling me a slut under their breath and spitting on me. Like, that’s what I knew. Um, you know, so I brought that up, and I discussed it with her because just as I defined, sexual assault and sexual harassment are key components of dismantling this, you know, and this person came back and said, You know, I want to make sure that we don’t dive too deeply into the horrors of sexual assault. And I was like, isn’t that my decision? Because I was the one talking about it. And then it brought me to the thought, and I love to hear your thoughts on this as a straight white man who this is all about and like, let me let me tell for whoever’s listening, there’s a pocket of men that I like to call the enlightened men and I guess one of them, you know, my husband’s another one, and he’s not perfect. So he’s always evolving, but they are these enlightened men that are literally resisting the toxic masculinity and either Conducting themselves in the opposite of that, or raising the next generation free of that. And I would say Doug’s one of those people. So that’s why I wanted him to have this discussion with me. Plus, he’s always behind the scenes in the pot. And he and I have great discussions. And I thought, why the hell not right. So I was just really confused when this person pushed back on me like this. And frankly, shocked. Because if you’re making your living off of working and dismantling toxic masculinity, and you are uncomfortable talking about sexual assaults, there’s two words of pieces of advice that I have for you, that are unsolicited, and I’m delivering them with love. Number one, educate yourself. And number two, look at the wounds inside you that are triggering you to feel this discomfort, because obviously, there’s something there.
Doug Foresta 10:55
Get comfortable. Or get comfortable being uncomfortable. I mean, so first, I want to say about the enlightened thing. I appreciate that Kelly, I’m very careful to never describe myself as enlightened anything, because I I’m just on a journey like everybody else. Yeah, yeah. So but you know, I would say this, that I agree with you, and I think that I think what it just shows is that, you know, we all can have blind spots. And so maybe this is that person’s blind spots coming up. But then the responsibility is, if, if that’s brought up, if you know, if you’re able, if you see the car coming, all of a sudden you see a flash of the car out of the out of the sideview mirror in then it’s our responsibility to be like, wow, why didn’t I see that coming? sooner?
Kelly Meerbott 11:43
Right. 100%. And it puts me in a position now. And you and I, Doug has been with me on my journey since What 2017 2017? Like, even though I’ve done this work since? Well, my my colleague, Marcus Williams, who works over at universities like, yeah, you started this work in year 19. I was like, what he goes, Yeah. What do you remember you the only blacks to your on the white student in an all black class of African American Studies, Holy Cross, and I was like, holy shit. I didn’t even remember that. But yeah, so I think it started long before but for me, it really wasn’t in. Let me see how I can say this. Yeah, it wasn’t in like, Oh, I’m fighting racism to me. Like I remember in my childhood, I like when I was little going. That’s not fair. Right? Why do I, you know, and like pointing it out. I mean, even I think I talked about in one of our podcasts about a family member who came out to me when I was 14, you know? And I was like, Well, wait a second, she loves this person. Like, why? Why doesn’t she have like, what what makes me so special that I get all of this stuff and like she has to fight for it didn’t make sense to me. And that’s why I think belonging and dei and accountability and all these things are so vitally important for society as a whole. Because, you know, you you can’t have belonging without accountability. And here’s what I’m seeing a lot. And this is why I think this situation with this person, toxic masculinity and sexual assault this all ties in, is because you cannot continue to say one thing and do another, you just can’t. And here’s the thing, like we could talk all day long about jumping onto the bandwagon and like, following the corporate buzzwords to make money, and listen, I’m all about paying your bills and all that, but let’s be honest about it, you know what I mean? And like, like you said, we all have blind spots. But if you’re making your living off of that, and behind the scenes, you’re behaving differently that’s out of alignment. Yeah. And, and maybe find another track or spend some more time in the research on it, because 25 people as a sample group, is not a large sample group in it. I mean, it’s not and it was doing the work that we do, and I include you in this. You got to get face to face, nose to nose toe to toe with your demons, you cannot look away you have to look at what triggers you fix it, heal it do the work. Because in this work, we cannot transfer our head trash onto somebody else. And help them heal. Can’t do that.
Doug Foresta 14:36
Yeah, though, the number one, the number one tool that any coach or therapist or speaker has is themselves their own presence. Yeah, so that is the most important thing and yeah, I completely agree with you. And it’s a good lesson. I mean, it’s good because you know, I’m not I agree with you that you know, You can’t do the you can’t be writing books and doing workshops on something when you’re not comfortable talking about it. Yeah. But you know, I would hope, my hope would be that, you know, if you find yourself in that situation like or like, even like you said, you know, people that write, there’s lots of people that are white who write anti racist books, who have lots of discomfort about truly confronting their own.
Kelly Meerbott 15:26
Yeah, well, and I think there’s a fear across the entire white culture about it. Like, you know, and I think there’s a guilt and ashame and like, here’s what I know. Okay. And I’m, this is what I’m noticing a lot of what’s the norm in your home? Right? What is the norm in your home that informs everything else? Right? So if you’re saying that you’re not racist, and then you know, you, your kids go home to a home that has staff maybe, and they happen to all be people of colour, and they are treated terribly, right. How you know, how you do anything, is how you do everything. But you know, even going back to what we were talking about with your own wounds, I go back to remember at the beginning of the pandemic, and I call this pandemic brain because I’m like, I don’t even know what day it is. The only reason I know is because I’ve got a clock there that says Tuesday, February 23. That’s how I know a date is like, days, weeks, months, like no idea. Right? So the beginning of the pandemic, one of my colleagues said to me, like, Listen, I don’t need you now. But I’m going to need you later to deal with all the trauma that my people have gone through. And that was, that’s a major healthcare organisation here in Philly. And I immediately again, note knew I had a gap in blind spot around the PTSD and trauma informed things. So I went back to the Arizona trauma Institute and got a certification and what really stuck with me, and this is something that informs all of my work, is the guy who was hosting the class was teaching a class said in the beginning, he said, Do you know the Hippocratic oath, like, what’s the first point of the Hippocratic Oath? Okay, so I’m gonna ask you that. So first point in the Hippocratic Oath down.
Doug Foresta 17:21
The one I understand is first do no harm, right?
Kelly Meerbott 17:24
We all know that, right? Yeah, you know, the second point. I don’t matter, heal thyself, Doctor, heal thyself. So the next thing the guy says is, what do you need to do in this class, to make sure that your autonomic nervous system is in regulation like and when I say that, it means you feel grounded, you feel steady, you feel calm your focus, like, you know, that kind of thing when you’re out of, it’s like, you’re out of alignment, when you’re out, you’re out. And now it’s like, you’re hyper, you’re irritable, all those things, right? So he basically said, do what you need to do to take care of yourself as healers. That’s what we need to do. So for me, that conversation about toxic masculinity and being uncomfortable with my story, which by the way, I told her before many times, this is not a surprise. Um, it goes back to the second point of the Hippocratic oath, Doctor heal thyself, right. Right. Because clearly, you’re not healed. You know what I mean? Like, for me, a Healed person. And again, this is not a like a black and white definition, it’s going to manifest differently for everybody. But for me and Kelly’s world, it’s when something out in the external world happens that would normally trigger you, right? You’re fully healed when you’re like, Okay, I recognise that that’s temporary. Okay. Before, I’m going to feel my feelings and, and like, work my resilience muscle. But I mean, and, you know,
Doug Foresta 19:04
Well, certainly we can’t be, we can’t be silencing other people for the sake of our own comfort and that crosses racism. Yeah, you know, that if a person of colour I mean, I can’t tell you how many times you know, I’ll post something about racism, and then all these white people jump on there, like America is the least racist society in the world. And, like, Well, why don’t you talk to a person of colour and see if they feel that way? I mean, you’re not willing to hear other people’s perspectives because it makes you feel uncomfortable. Same thing with sexual abuse. Same thing with, you know, women in the workplace. I mean, it just go on and on, but you have exactly heal thyself and you have to be willing to be open to hearing the experiences of other people. Shutting people down is not an option.
Kelly Meerbott 19:51
Right? Well, and, you know, so Okay, let’s go back to January 6, right. Yeah. So there’s this organisation called life after hate. And it was founded by a former White national supremacy white supremacist, right? And I’m listening to him get interviewed, and people are like, Listen, I lost my aunt. People are divorcing because of this divisive, hateful rhetoric, like long term relationships. I mean, I, I know somebody very close to me that’s getting a divorce because this person went down the rabbit hole of disinformation and like, just bought it hook, line and sinker. And this part, this journalist, I was interviewing this guy, and I forget his name of the organisations life after hate. He says she was like, how do we how do we talk to people, because every time we tried to invite them into conversation, they like, shut it down. And that happened to me, like, there were people on the other side, and like, just help me understand, like, I don’t, especially as a woman, I don’t please help me understand it was automatically like, you’re attacking me for my beliefs? And I’m like, No, I’m not I really, I really want to understand what it is like telling me and nobody could ever give me a concrete example. So he says, we’ve got a invite them into relationship. And it’s like, how can you invite somebody into a relationship that is, so shut down? You know, and I see that all across the board in different different forms of, you know, fashions and like, you and I talked about this reaction, again, going back to the toxic masculinity, and how, you know, by ignoring it, or trying to silence it, or cut it out, like erase it from the conversation, is propping up this rape culture, part of the white supremacist copy? Right?
Doug Foresta 21:40
You’re only you’re only helping to perpetuate the very thing that yeah,
Kelly Meerbott 21:44
it’s exhausting. It’s just exhausting. And, you know, I’m Listen, I may be exhausted by not giving up because I know like, my counterparts and, and marginalised communities, again, are dealing with this at a much higher level of scrutiny and oppression than I am sure, you know, but what frustrates me is this person is perpetuating, or putting herself forth as this expert, and she’s wounded and bleeding all over you. You learn you can’t take care of yourself first.
Doug Foresta 22:23
I guess that’s right, then, and I love what I just want to say, Kelly, because I, you know, about what you’re doing about using your, you know, using what you have, and I love the the the cup of rice, you know, the rice analogy. And by the way, that’s not socialism for people who say, Oh, my God, that’s not socialism. I mean, you could do that. That’s capitalism. It’s just fair and equitable capitalism. Yeah, egalitarianism it’s not even about socialism. No. And I think what you’re doing is creating an example. And, you know, there’s that Quaker saying about let your life speak. And I think that’s what you’re I think that’s what you’re doing is letting letting your life speak.
Kelly Meerbott 23:02
Yeah. And God does. What a perfect like, you just moved me with that. Because that’s literally, I’ll tell you, my, one of my biggest fears is to be laying on my deathbed. And if the question comes in my head, what if I tried blah, and I didn’t do it? You know what I mean? Like, I don’t ever want to live a life of regret. And like, Listen, I’ve already had backlash for speaking out. Facebook shut me down on October 20. I disabled my account after 18 years, with no explanation, and no response to inquiries either. You know, I’ve had death threats, which, you know, I took them honestly as humorous because, honestly, if I thought about it, seriously, I’d probably never leave my house and I can’t live my life like that. You know, and and egalitarian is it Gala. terian ism, which is the, that’s the title I want. I want it on my gravestone or wherever, like, my husband, and I decided we want to be trees. So a plaque at the base of the tree, you know, a gala. terian. And what that means is just sharing, sharing what you have, you know what I mean? And here’s what I know. I can’t remember which Rockefeller was but on his, he was dying at one point, right, the doctor his gift had given him like the timeline and he was like, Alright, well, if I’m gonna die, I might as well give my money away, kept giving his money away, kept getting in more money. And he ended up living for like years and he just like, the more money he gave away, the more it came in, because it’s the cycle. Right? And hoarding isn’t going to help anybody. We’ve got this huge economic gap across the globe. You know what I mean? So share some of your rice share it, because then if they’re fed, and that hunger is taken away, they can do work to serve the world. And we’re just lifting everybody up. You know what I mean? So thank you for saying that but it’s to me it’s like everybody should be doing this. This should be a no brainer. You know, I mean, these these are humans we’re talking about and we need to think of ourselves as a global family. Because we’re all connected and you don’t believe me? Coronavirus,
Doug Foresta 25:25
Coronavirus? That’s right.
Kelly Meerbott 25:28
There you go as an example, you know what I mean? And, and God bless the half a million souls that lost their lives to that unnecessarily, in my opinion. But that’s a whole nother story for another day. But hey, listen, and I’m talking to my white colleagues out there. If you’re doing work in dei belonging, toxic masculinity, make sure that you’ve got yourself in check, before you go into that situation, because you cannot be wounded and bleeding all over everybody and expect a transformation and a change in our culture, it’s not going to work. It’s just not. And take it for me who faked it for a very long time and corporate who made herself sick, because I was out of alignment. It’s much easier to live in alignment with who you are at your core. And make sure that everything you’re saying and doing matches, you know, and I’ll give you an example. You can’t be a big corporate partner who celebrates, you know, black culture during black history and then treat your your black employees like, you know, they’re second class citizens doesn’t align, fix it. You know, again, let’s ask what our norm in the household is. And if we’re, you know, equating corporate, to our home, clean up your house before you go out and try to heal. You know, and again, I am not a perfect person, I am not preaching perfectionism here, nor am I claiming that I am one. What I am railing against is, is paying attention to making sure you’re not a hypocrite. You know, and then you’re not taking jobs away from people who are more qualified, better qualified, better grounded than you are. Until you get your your wounds healed, you know, but again, first, do no harm, Doctor, heal thyself, and that’s for everybody in the coaching, consulting doctor, heal yourself. There’s plenty of us out here and want to help raise your hand and ask for help we’re here. But don’t don’t go perpetuating yourself as something you’re not. You know, and just because you’re associated with a higher education, you know, institution that doesn’t give you credibility anymore either, sorry, just doesn’t, you know, sign to work harder and be more in our integrity because the opposite is not working. And again, you want an example of that January 6, you know, that’s, that’s hundreds of years of murder, brutality, rape, misogyny, homophobia at it added up, that’s what that looks like. And us looking the other way. And again, this is for the white community, us looking the other way, not calling out calling it out, not shining a light on it, not standing up, not putting our bodies in harm’s way to protect our you know, marginalised community and family members like, that has to stop because otherwise we’re going to seriously and this is not hyperbole, we’re going to end up in Hitler’s Germany. If this doesn’t stop, and there’s Guess what, nobody’s coming to save us. We have to save ourselves, not the government, not the police. Nobody. This is our country, and we need to take it back. You know, and I mean, take it back in a way that let’s part without borrowed from, you know, Sony, Sony Renae, Taylor’s, quote, let’s ditch a garment that hit fits all of humanity and nature, that’s more equitable. We can do that. This country is amazing. we’ve overcome so many things. But we cannot continue down this path. We can’t. Not if we want the America that we’ve always been dreaming of but have never achieved. gotta stop pretending it’s faking, it doesn’t work anymore. Just doesn’t. And this next generation will put you on blast for it. And publicly, you know, so, um, but as I’m, I mean, as a man hearing all of this like and with two young daughters, like you were farmers see to this, both of us were like, what the hell, you know, I mean, and I of course had other choice words for which I won’t say right now, but Yeah, I mean, like sitting on the sidelines and witnessing this witnessing to women. You know, and you know me really well,
Doug Foresta 30:09
yes. It was quite shocking. Yeah, it was, it was quite shocking. But at the same time, yeah, I mean, I think it was quite shocking because of the fact that this was a person who, like you said, you know, checks all the boxes about, you know, academia and society. But, you know, like you said, it just shows that none of us no one gets a pass. There’s no degree high enough. You can’t hide behind anything anymore. You know, people are interested. And like you said, you know, the younger generation, especially, they don’t care if you’re a celebrity. They don’t care how much money you have. They don’t care how many gods you have that. Okay, how many PhDs you have. Hashtag cancel that, right. Yeah, they don’t care.
Kelly Meerbott 30:53
Yeah. And you know, so, you know, I have this high level contract for the military, right? Yeah. Well, one of the things I said to them during the after George Floyd’s assassination, and there were all those calls to defund police, which, you know, again, like you and I have gone back to vocabulary around that, and from what I understand, and I could be wrong, so anybody who wants to correct me on this I’m okay with that. is it’s not about eliminating the police altogether. It’s about reallocating the funds for things that they shouldn’t be responding to IE, mental health calls and stuff like that. But I was saying, going back to the military, you know, when there were calls for defund the police, I said, you know, y’all need to pay attention to this, because it’s not a quick jump from defund the police to defund the military. Right. And they were like, crazy. You’re being crazy. I’m like, I’m telling you. I’m not. And then shortly thereafter, that this westpoint scandal came out, and I’m like,
Doug Foresta 31:55
Yes, yes, Fort Hood.
Kelly Meerbott 32:00
You know what I mean, these these things are playing out publicly, and they’re a microcosm of our society as a whole so that these big organisations don’t fix their culture to really reflect what they want to be, you know, these virtuous integris you know, organisations, they, they got to get in alignment again, it’s it’s about doing and saying, exactly, this.
Doug Foresta 32:24
Yeah. Yeah.
Kelly Meerbott 32:25
Anyway, that’s, that’s my soapbox.
Doug Foresta 32:30
I think it’s important though, Kelly, and I hope, I hope people really take this to heart. And again, it’s not about to me I take it not just about pointing fingers. But you know, the thing about the fingers pointing back to
Kelly Meerbott 32:40
100%. And here’s the thing to again, you’ve been with me for what, since four years now?
Doug Foresta 32:46
Yeah, four years. You know, I
Kelly Meerbott 32:48
mean, I always call myself a forever student, like you were saying, Don’t call me enlightened. My head and she’s, like, enlightened. Now. It’s, and what she means by that is, as soon as you slap a label on it, you’ve boxed it in, right? So for me, like I just try to constantly look at myself, like, Where am I putting my hand in this? Where’s my contribution? Where? Where can I course correct in the future? And I think that’s really where we all need to start, you know, start with yourself, like, did you ignore something that happened right in front of you that you could have called out? Did somebody say something in a meaning in front of you? That was a microaggression, that you didn’t call out that you can, you know, bring to somebody’s attention? Did you not speak up? Did you? You know, as a hiring manager, did you pass over a resume? That sounded a little too, you know, whatever, not in alignment with what you think is the ideal candidate, we need to check those all the time. And it’s not. This is not a one time thing. It’s not like, I mean, I am laughing because of a story I want to tell you. So I again, I have these high level military people that I’m coaching around emotional well being and I open up the zoom call to this guy, and he’s like, I’m so nervous, man. I’m so nervous. Oh, no. And then he goes, I have to give a brief to the head of the base. And I’m like, how long have you been in the military? And anybody who knows me knows I’m a wise as I’m sarcastic. That’s part of my personality. I was like, so you’ve been in the military 25 years, and I will give them brief. And he goes, No, I have he goes, but the general wants us to solve diversity, equity inclusion in a brief and I was like, timeout, stop. I was like, Okay, how old is this organisation? And he said, however many years and it was like 100, almost 300 years, whatever. And I was like, Yeah, I’ve been doing this work since I was 19 years old, and you can’t just go Tada, welcome to diversity, equity, inclusive land. You can’t do that. Like it’s not flipping a switch. Right? You know what I mean? And he’s like, Well, what about Do I serve as the leader, it’s your job to manage expectations. So you say, this brief is the start. But we need action steps after this to change it. You know what I mean? But I think these people think they’re going to come in and be like, tada, I took a class and now it’s all belonging. No, it is a constant journey. And the more you peel back, the more is going to pop up, and you’re going to have to deal with it in I mean, because the only thing we can control is this. So you got to fix this clean up your house and live from from your heart and your soul. That’s what will guide you that inner wisdom, and I’ll never steer you wrong, ever. So anyway, again on my soapbox, but I say this all with love, because I, I believe in the goodness of people, Doug, and I, I think that if people are awake to it and open to it, and are willing to be better, that’s what we need right now. And we need to start with ourselves, we absolutely need to start with ourselves, like where do I need to clean up the mess that I made or contributed to or breathe life into or whatever. So
Doug Foresta 36:12
thank you, Kelly. I appreciate it. I think it’s an important. I think it’s an important reflection for all of us.
Kelly Meerbott 36:17
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So and thank you, Doug. Thanks for being there. And listening to me, Rachel and
Doug Foresta 36:24
I pleasure. It’s been an amazing journey. It’s been an amazing journey to be with you Kelly.
Kelly Meerbott 36:29
Really has has been kind of fine. It’s been like, okay, what’s next? We’re just kind of flown with it. But it’s, it’s been fun. It’s been really fun. And I can’t wait to see what happens next.
Doug Foresta 36:40
Save here.
Kelly Meerbott 36:41
Anyway, thanks, tagging. You
Doug Foresta 36:43
have a great day. Okay. You too. Alright. Bye.
Outro 37:02
You’ve been listening to hidden human, the stories behind the business leader. If you’ve enjoyed the episode, please subscribe to the podcast on iTunes. To learn more about Kelly and the services she provides. Visit you loud and clear.com thanks so much for listening, and we’ll be back soon with a new episode.[/vc_column_text][vc_column_text][/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/toggle][/toggles][/vc_column][/vc_row]
