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[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][divider line_type=”Full Width Line” line_thickness=”1″ divider_color=”default” animate=”yes” delay=”50″][/vc_column][/vc_row][vc_row type=”in_container” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” scene_position=”center” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_column column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_column_text]Aurora Archer & Kelly Sorg – creators of The Opt-In Podcast, join the program for a conversation about how to support healing, reconciliation, and new ways of navigating identity. Aurora and Kelly share their perspective on white fragility, and how to move past defensiveness and denial.[/vc_column_text][/vc_column_inner][/vc_row_inner][/vc_column][/vc_row][vc_row type=”full_width_background” full_screen_row_position=”middle” column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” scene_position=”center” top_padding=”0″ bottom_padding=”7%” text_color=”dark” text_align=”left” row_border_radius=”none” row_border_radius_applies=”bg” class=”custom-p” overlay_strength=”0.3″ gradient_direction=”left_to_right” shape_divider_position=”bottom” bg_image_animation=”none” shape_type=””][vc_column column_padding=”no-extra-padding” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”left-right” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” tablet_text_alignment=”default” phone_text_alignment=”default” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” bg_image_animation=”none”][toggles style=”default”][toggle color=”Default” title=”Episode Transcription”][vc_row_inner column_margin=”default” column_direction=”default” column_direction_tablet=”default” column_direction_phone=”default” text_align=”left”][vc_column_inner column_padding=”padding-3-percent” column_padding_tablet=”inherit” column_padding_phone=”inherit” column_padding_position=”all” background_color_opacity=”1″ background_hover_color_opacity=”1″ column_shadow=”none” column_border_radius=”none” column_link_target=”_self” gradient_direction=”left_to_right” overlay_strength=”0.3″ width=”1/1″ tablet_width_inherit=”default” column_border_width=”none” column_border_style=”solid” bg_image_animation=”none”][vc_column_text]
Speaker 1:
Welcome to Hidden Human, the podcast where we explore the stories behind the business leader. Get ready to hear insights from business leaders speaking candidly about how they became who they are today and the lessons they learned along the way. Now, here’s your host, leadership host and speaker, Kelly Meerbott.
Kelly Meerbott:
Welcome to the space where we reveal our personal humanity, to reconnect with our shared humanity. I have been waiting to have these two amazing angel beings on my podcast for months, and today is the gift that will keep on giving for all of us. It is my pleasure to being the conversation with Aurora Archer and Kelly Sorg, founders and co-hosts and the Opt-In podcast. Ladies, welcome. I’m just thrilled to have you here.
Aurora Archer:
We love you.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
So happy to see you.
Kelly Meerbott:
I mean when we opened the Zoom camera, of course I started crying because these two are just, I mean they are the light of the world. They are what the future looks like, and if the future looks like this, we’re all in good shape. Okay, if I was a six year old child and I was trying to understand what the Opt-In is and how it was born, how would you explain that to me.
Aurora Archer:
I think we’ll start with what is it? Clearly it’s a podcast, but we believe it’s more than that. It’s a learning platform and it’s really a community of practice where we invite white people, specifically white women into our lives as a woman of color and a white woman so that through the conversations that Kelly and I have amongst ourselves and as well as with our guests, we basically support healing, reconciliation and new ways of navigating our identity so that we can be better and do better.
Kelly Meerbott:
That’s not a small task at all.
Aurora Archer:
Yeah.
Kelly Meerbott:
Kelly, why … I mean this is not easy, especially as white women. I mean let’s be honest. White privilege is something that gets out backs up, gets a lot of us defensive, shuts us down. Why would you want to subject yourself to something like that?
Kelly Croce Sorg:
I would go back to your original question, Kel, of my understanding is still growing, so I feel kind of childlike in my understanding of my own identity of my own whiteness and of the harm and danger I have caused and could cause. I think I would say to a child or I have said to my own children that I thought the world was a certain way and I thought it was fair and I thought it was just. We all had our chance, an even chance to do our very best.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
The moment that I realized that that was not true, I couldn’t let myself continue in the path that I was in. I had to figure out where I was and who I was in the big picture of things and realize it’s totally unfair and it’s totally unjust and it was started that way, and so if I can talk about that where it doesn’t make people feel condemned or scorned, including myself, that maybe that’s how I can help other people see the injustice, see the unfairness because there is a lot of black and brown bodies that have died because of it and are at risk because of it.
Kelly Meerbott:
Aurora, why do you think Kelly was the right person, in your mind, soul, spirit? Aurora, and I was saying this to Doug, our producer before we even got signed on, was that when I met Aurora, I introduced myself and I said, “Hi, I’m Kelly,” and she said, “I’m Aurora,” and I was like, Aurora’s the goddess of light in Greek mythology, and as soon as I saw her, it was almost like this energetic beam hit my heart and was like, “This is somebody you need to have in your life because she is a light.”
Kelly Meerbott:
I don’t say that for flattery, but anybody who knows Aurora Archer knows that that’s who she is. Just every fiber, every cell in her body is a light. Why do you think Kelly was the right person to be a light bearer and an illuminator in the dark with you?
Aurora Archer:
Well I think for one, she was willing to do the work. This really all began because there was a phenomenal book that was published in 2019 by Robin DeAngelo called White Fragility. I purchased about 25 copies of that book, and with much love and with much support and reverence, I gave it to some of my best white girlfriends and some of my former white colleagues. Kelly was one of the people that I gave the book to, and she took that book and didn’t only read the book, but really embodied what was being shared and offered in the book and literally turbo charged an inner reflection and an accountability and a stepping up that propelled us to, into a deeper relationship, into deeper conversations and an opportunity to hopefully model that conversation for others because she was willing to step up and to go inward, to then come outward.
Kelly Meerbott:
Yeah. I mean that’s exactly it. It’s our internal work and it’s healing all of our wounds because let’s be honest, hurt people hurt people, right? I remember having that conversation with, because I wasn’t one of the recipients of the book, but I bought it right after I went to our first meeting, and I remember thinking to myself, “Oh my god, this is what they mean by the system being unbalanced.” To me, the most eye opening thing was, and I know this sounds simplistic, but it just kind of hit me that this country was built by white male slave owners for white male slave owners, not for any of us sitting here.
Kelly Meerbott:
Of course my Aries nature, being fiery the way I am, I’m like, “Let’s burn the shit down. Let’s just go scorched earth on it,” right? That doesn’t work either, because there’s a lot of collateral damage when you do that and you don’t do it intentionally. I’ll tell you, just to kind of dovetail off on that statement, I remember the first time I heard the term white privilege and it was way before I even met you. It was probably about 10 years ago, and somebody said to me, “Well you have white privilege.” I was like, “The fuck I don’t.”
Kelly Meerbott:
I go, “I’ve worked for everything. I built my business on my back. I don’t have a …” My friend, who happened to be a white woman as well, said to me, “Right, but have you ever been a store and followed just based on the color of your skin?” I was like, “Oh, okay. Now I understand. Now I get it.” That was sort of the awakening, and then you two came into my life and it was like this unfolding. For me, it’s been a slower process. Kelly, you jumped right in and I admire you so much for your bravery and courage. It’s taken me a little bit to get there, but I’m starting to get there and raise my voice.
Kelly Meerbott:
Why is it so important for the white community to be part of this? Again, that may sound like a simplistic question, but obviously it’s not anybody else’s work to do but the white culture, period. It is. It’s rooted in that. Why is it important for us to have that awareness?
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Well first Kel, don’t give me too much credit because I had the privilege to go deep into this work at that moment in my life and thereafter. I’ll also add to your goddess of light over here, also ends in Archer. A lot can be do with love, right?
Kelly Meerbott:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Because she’s my bestie, there was no out. There was no I could or I couldn’t do it. It just was. I would say I don’t have a lot of white girlfriends that have a bestie who’s a woman of color, and so without that direct love and direct feedback of one’s own actions, meaning we’re all in very segregated areas, it’s very easy to stay asleep. It’s very easy to be in the schools that we’re in, to go to the stores we go to, to walk around the neighborhoods we have or just stay in our homes like we have for the last two months, et cetera, and not get the feedback of being in community with people of color and therefore feeling your own whiteness.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
A lot of us walk around with our white identity asleep, and we don’t realize, we think we’re an individual, I think I’m special. Everybody’s special. There’s often an easy opt out for white people to stay asleep because it’s comfortable, and frankly our kids aren’t being shot and they’re A-okay with their life and their school or whatever and white people complaints and that’s it. There’s no judgment there. It doesn’t mean it’s not causing harm.
Kelly Meerbott:
Right.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
In opting out, because you really are only opting in or opting out, I hate to be binary about it, but it kind of is that way, that we don’t understand as white people the harm we cause. In us constantly opting out, that matters and it makes a big, big difference.
Kelly Meerbott:
100%.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Again, I don’t want to make it binary because some people don’t want to be activists, and I get that, and some people don’t want to be academics and I get that, but there’s always ways that you can opt in where you are, however, and in whatever area you are, because it all starts within yourself. [inaudible 00:11:46] are unpeeling who you are, why you think the things you do, why you act in the way you act, a lot of things that you thought maybe were your personality could quite frankly be a lot of conditioning.
Kelly Meerbott:
Oh yeah, it’s all conditioning, right?
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Yes, and our conditioning is white supremacist culture.
Kelly Meerbott:
It totally is. Aurora can you speak to a little bit more from your perspective?
Aurora Archer:
Yeah. Kelly and I have this conversation all the time. As a woman of color, being Afro-Latina, DE&I was fascinating to me because it was always on the responsibility and the shoulders of the people of color. The marginalized person who’s actually the recipient of the oppression has been in charge to actually change it. How far do we actually think we’re going to get in changing it? Our call, our opt-in is that white people have an incredible opportunity not only for themselves but for our society and our humanity at large to step into their greater knowing and to see the system that has actually oppressed and kept us all small and little.
Kelly Meerbott:
I’m nodding my head because I think, and I really want this to be a free flowing decision so jump in and interrupt me if you feel like I’m going off track, but I feel like coronavirus, which we’re all experiencing now, and I read somewhere that the Greek root of the word crisis is to sift. The way I’m seeing this is a great universal sifting, and what I’m noticing is that those organizations that are not in alignment are finally coming to light. Let me give you an example, and I’ve been given permission to talk about this.
Kelly Meerbott:
There’s a law firm called Pond Lehocky in Center City. They went and fired 90 of their attorneys via Zoom. They did three calls of 30. They called them on, had 30 of them on there, they were all furloughed at the time, and they basically said, “You’re all fired. Any questions?” All of us know that there’s a Zoom etiquette where you have to pause if you say “Any questions” because of technology. My friend went to unmute her mic, and they were like, “No questions? Okay,” and shut down the call. Then they did that three times, so for 90 people. The next day on Facebook, I seen NBC6 covering Pond Lehocky’s great job giving away sandwiches to homeless people in Temple. It’s like, okay-
Aurora Archer:
Yes, their PR person.
Kelly Meerbott:
Right. Of course, two seconds later everybody was on Facebook was like, “Yeah, because you saved money firing your lawyers,” blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I’m using this as an example because you cannot say one thing and do another. You cannot. You cannot have pretty words as your mission, vision, values, for example, all people are welcome and then when you go into a location, people of color, black, brown, pink, Asian, whatever are being ignored and treated like they don’t exist, which is another thing that I notice that the white culture does is I’m uncomfortable, the best way I can handle it is pretend you don’t exist.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
We do.
Kelly Meerbott:
I find this whole situation very fascinating, and I really wanted to talk to you two about, like Aurora you and I had this conversation way back in March when this started, and you and I were like, “We’ll be fine,” meaning you, me and Kelly and Doug everybody will be fine, but it’s the most marginalized people that won’t be. We saw that from the concert from home when Alicia Keys and Beyonce were all talking about how people of color, again, are on the front lines caring for everybody. Meanwhile, the population is getting hit worse because they don’t have access to the kinds of things that maybe I have or Kelly has or Doug has because of the way we look.
Kelly Meerbott:
I’m interested to understand from your perspective what you’re seeing experientially, that this crisis has sifted and brought to the surface.
Aurora Archer:
There’s so many things that we can unpack in that question. I’m going to start with what I think you first mentioned, Kelly, because Kelly and I, Kelly Croce Sorg and I were just talking about that before we got on this podcast, which is the congruency in your actions and your behavior. This notion that folks will repost a social justice post, they’ll go out and write a check or they will go out and do a march, but in your own home or in your own environment, you’re not checking your white supremacy behaviors, which let’s all just acknowledge, we’ve all been programmed into because [crosstalk 00:17:46] 1776, this country was founded and formed from a white patriarchal lens, period.
Aurora Archer:
There’s enough literature and enough books out there, we can reference them, that will tell you the reality of our history. This is what we’re seeing, we’re seeing companies that articulate a mission statement, that articulate values, and that articulate this PR polished way that they are, yet their day to day operational behaviors are not congruent with that. That is what I think we’re all starting to see and say, “Uh-uh. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.” For all of those folks who are saying, “We got to bring down the systemic racism, we’ve got to bring down these structures of repression,” my first question is, “And where are you in dismantling those systems and that programming within yourself?”
Kelly Meerbott:
Yeah.
Aurora Archer:
That’s hard work. It’s going to take … it’s not going to happen overnight, and it’s not just the what you do, but it’s how you do it.
Kelly Meerbott:
Yeah, and I mean I think I was explaining to the two of you about the trip I took with my father and the conversation that I had with our host in Wyoming, and I could feel it getting amplified, and I was like, remember I’m sitting in the back seat of the car and this is what happened just for the audience context, is that the concept of Black Lives Matter and Colin Kaepernick kneeling at football games came up, and the fact that our host believed that it was a slight against the veterans. Now my husband is a 20 year veteran of the United States Navy, and when that narrative first came out, he came out and said publicly that that was completely erroneous. It had nothing to do with the veterans, and as a vet he didn’t feel insulted and it was all of that.
Kelly Meerbott:
I brought that up to our host and he was like, “That was absolutely wrong. It’s a finger in the face of our democracy,” and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I basically said, “You’re wrong, it’s about Black Lives Matter.” I think that’s what you’re saying, Aurora, is it’s one thing to easily share on your stories on Instagram Justice for Breonna, but if you’re not checking that uncle that everybody knows is racist and just lets him get away with that, if you’re not checking those, if you’re not living in alignment with what you’re saying and what you’re doing, then you’re not really doing the work.
Kelly Meerbott:
Let me just tell you, our host, we were on a ranch that was one of the heirs of the Coca Cola fortune, so this is somebody really powerful. I thought to myself in the back seat of the car as we were driving, “Shit, you need to say something,” and then there’s other piece of my programming that’s like, “No, little girl, you need to be polite to your host.” Then I was like, the warrior part of me was like, “Fuck that.” We need to start having these conversations on the highest levels, so now’s your opportunity. I literally kept going at it until my dad turned around and gave me that dad look that was like, “Shut the hell up.” I finally let it go, but I think that’s what you’re getting at Aurora, is that correct?
Aurora Archer:
[crosstalk 00:21:37].
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Yeah. Can I jump in? Aurora and I have just been talking about this, she introduced me to the term that I just thought was an old lady name, but it’s not. That in times of stress, we do the fight or flight or freeze or faint I’ve even heard, but fawn is one of those, that I would say from my own opinion white women do quite often and quite well to everybody’s demise. In that situation, and Kel, I’m right there with you and I’ve been in meetings where I have been, I’m like, “I just fawned him instead of checked him,” where there’s a programming there that we are friendly to adjacent power and we will try to make them feel better in whatever situation they’re in instead of standing for what is right for the greater good.
Kelly Meerbott:
Yeah, exactly. Aurora, what are your thoughts?
Kelly Croce Sorg:
I was going to say when we’re talking about white supremacist cultural conditioning, just so people know what the hell we’re talking about.
Kelly Meerbott:
Yes, please. Thank you.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Because so often we talk about racism, racism, racism, and it’s to Aurora’s point, DE&I, it’s like racism, and everybody looks at the person of color in the world. It’s like, no, no, no, it’s white supremacy. It’s patriarchal white supremacy, so then can we [inaudible 00:23:04] person in the room that’s contributing to that, please?
Kelly Meerbott:
Right.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Our white supremacist cultural characteristics are things that we’re very familiar with, so familiar with that when I read them at first I was like, “Uh-huh, and?” Like European beauty standards, binary thinking, good, bad, black, white, right, wrong. Perfectionism. What else? Add as needed. There’s so many.
Aurora Archer:
[crosstalk 00:23:29].
Kelly Croce Sorg:
There’s so many.
Aurora Archer:
[inaudible 00:23:31] power, oppression, talking over.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Yes.
Aurora Archer:
[crosstalk 00:23:36], whiteness.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Yes.
Aurora Archer:
It’s so pervasive that I think when you’re white, it’s so difficult to see. I think that this is where Robin DeAngelo talks about the fragility, right? I find it so fascinating that whenever there is an incident, white people, of a brown person-
Kelly Croce Sorg:
I was going to say, yeah.
Aurora Archer:
… brown or black person being harmed or doing something in protest to the way we are being oppressed or treated by power structures, somehow that’s a defamation of our democracy. How did you guys get to that? Because I’m like, “No, no, no, this is about humanity.” This is about my life, my [inaudible 00:24:31] take a breath in this country that should be equal to your breath as a white person. Somehow we sit and it gets taken apart and becomes something about our democracy and our flag, and let’s just go back to 1776. Oh yeah? Because oh by the way, we’re going to talk about democracy and we’re going to talk about what we stand for as a country. Let’s get very real that none of that has historically applied to brown and black bodies.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
All of that was built on the bodies of them and by the bodies of them.
Aurora Archer:
Correct.
Kelly Meerbott:
100%. Okay, so here’s what’s coming up for me Aurora and Kelly. What I noticed in that situation where I was, as my father would call it, being a loud mouth hippie, that’s just whatever, I noticed that there was deflection and distraction. To throw up democracy, to throw up distracts from what the real issue is, and like I said in the beginning, this is not … to me it’s deeper than that. It’s a destruction of human life, period.
Aurora Archer:
Exactly. Let’s have that conversation, right? You look at all of it, you look at all of the instances. The one I tend to bring up is Eric Garner. Watching that film literally, we watched a man murdered and killed before our eyes and yet white people wanted to have a conversation about the peddling of cigarettes and how many … It’s like the distraction, exactly what you said, it’s the deflecting and it’s the intellectualizing. Can we have a conversation about a human being was literally just murdered in front of all of us. Do we think that that is okay?
Kelly Meerbott:
Aurora, will you give some background on Eric Garner? I’m sorry to talk over you, but I want to just make sure that everybody’s operating from the same context. I know about it, Kelly knows about it, I’m sure Doug knows about it, but I want to make sure everybody is aware of what the situation really was.
Aurora Archer:
Eric Garner was an African American who, this is a case that happened in Staten Island who was selling cigarettes. One of his side gigs, one of his side jobs amongst many was he would buy packs of cigarettes and then he would sell them one at a time. He was approached by officers. Someone called the cops and said, “This guy is selling cigarettes,” and he continued to ask for clarity on why he was being approached by the police officers. He continued to ask for clarity on what was wrong, and he in essence lost his life. He continuously articulated that he could not breathe.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
All of this was on video.
Aurora Archer:
All of this was on video, and I can’t remember if it was four or five cops, but all I can say is it was more than two who literally brought this human being down and hand choked him to death on video for selling single cigarettes. I’m sorry, I don’t believe that whatever was the case, that someone dies and this is what our issue is, and as someone whose grown up with a black father, I have a mixed and black child, male son. I’ve watched my cousins, my uncles, so many family members be continuously harassed and dehumanized because that’s actually what’s happening. There’s a humanization of brown and black bodies that says my body is of less value than yours.
Aurora Archer:
[inaudible 00:28:52] what’s happened with the case of Ahmaud. We see it now with the case of Breonna. We have a list. Sandra, go down the list. The hashtags are staggering.
Kelly Meerbott:
Yeah, you had posted something on your Instagram, and that’s really when I think I should have probably been angrier before, but it just hit me, and at the end of it was “Black people are tired, we’re tired of making hashtags,” and it was just a list. What I keep thinking is what would have happened if any of those people were white? How would we have reacted?
Aurora Archer:
White? If they were a Labradoodle, people would have been up in arms, let alone [crosstalk 00:29:40].
Kelly Meerbott:
Oh my god.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
I just want to take it back half a notch because the hashtags, these people have died, and then we’re [crosstalk 00:29:50] and we’re protesting and we’re calling in. The point is that, and this was Dr. Ericka Hart had mentioned in her Instagram, was like, “Can you just celebrate us when we’re alive because every time you pass us up for that job or every time you say our hair isn’t the right way in HR or every time you appropriate our butt or our lips or our hair, you are harming black and brown bodies. You are dehumanizing us. You are making it more okay to see that, accept it, go numb when you see it, deny when you see it, question when you see it, instead of really seeing it.”
Kelly Meerbott:
Yeah.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Because if white people really understood what we allow and what we do, it would be so uncomfortable that we wouldn’t be able to do it.
Kelly Meerbott:
That’s where my evolution is. It’s just like I looked at my husband at one point, I go, “I’m ashamed to be fucking white. This is disgusting.”
Kelly Croce Sorg:
[crosstalk 00:30:54] us even quieter. That’s where we’re asking people to, with the Opt-In, we’re going to be the on ramp to get your footing with being comfortable with talking [inaudible 00:31:10] meant to be uncomfortable.
Kelly Meerbott:
Yeah.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Because if it’s uncomfortable, then we won’t talk about it. It will stay the same. It will not be any sort of equity in any form and we won’t be going in the direction of humanity at all.
Kelly Meerbott:
No. No, and to me, this ranking of the value of life is just, that’s another awareness that I’ve recently had. I’m more valuable than, and I’ll just say this, than Aurora because of the way I look, which is horseshit. It’s just simply not true, and it goes back to that conditioning. I mean, even that conditioning in the story I was telling you about with my father and being hosted in Wyoming, I mean that jumped up, “Little girl, don’t be disrespectful to your host.” I’m a 44 year old woman. That’s a six year old child. That’s where that conditioning comes from.
Kelly Meerbott:
Unfortunately, we haven’t questioned it. We haven’t questioned anything. Now we are starting to where pockets of us are, but still you’re right. Why not celebrate more alive and question the system and the perpetrators. I mean this is not an isolated incident, like I said. How many hashtags were in that Aurora? I want to say it was close to 100 people.
Aurora Archer:
You think about all the hashtags.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Yeah, “Running while black,” “Sleeping while black,” “Walking while black.”
Aurora Archer:
You think about all of those hashtags, and you think about all the people who haven’t made the frontline news.
Kelly Meerbott:
Oh yeah.
Aurora Archer:
You think about all the ones that weren’t on video. I think about, hopefully your listeners are aware of Ahmaud Arbery. Do we … I don’t know what everyone recognizes or realizes that that video was known from the beginning, so over two and a half months ago that video was shot and was shared with the authorities, and the only reason it was leaked to the rest of us is because there was a perception that when it was leaked that we would all see how the white men were being attacked by a black man.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Oh they thought it was proof that they were putting out for their own innocence?
Aurora Archer:
They thought it was proof. They thought it would exonerating.
Kelly Meerbott:
Surprise.
Aurora Archer:
They thought it was exonerating.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Oh wow. Yeah.
Aurora Archer:
They thought we would all see how the big black man-
Kelly Croce Sorg:
How righteous they were.
Aurora Archer:
… the big vicious, black man-
Kelly Meerbott:
Scary, yeah.
Aurora Archer:
… was attacking the white people. The response was contrary, but what I think is important for us to really sit in the holy shit moment of is the fact that that is what those white men saw.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Right.
Aurora Archer:
That is the perception. We go back to we have to do the internal work of dismantling our programming and a programming that in this country has demonized, has-
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Criminalized, imprisoned.
Aurora Archer:
… criminalized.
Kelly Meerbott:
Dehumanized.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Tortured, murdered.
Aurora Archer:
And so it goes back to that.
Kelly Meerbott:
Okay, let’s take this a step further because I would love to have some actionable steps, not only for me, but for anybody listening. One of the things that I really loved was, oh my gosh, and her name’s just slipping right out of my … it just flew right out of my mind, I can see her. She’s Lenny Kravitz’s daughter.
Aurora Archer:
Zoe.
Kelly Meerbott:
Thank you. She posted, “This is what you can do in your home.” First of all, call out that uncle. Start doing the work internally. What are some actionable steps that people who are starting to wake up to this can start to make a difference? What are little things, and again, this is … I don’t want this to come off like, “You need to do my work for me,” but if there’s ways that we can get there faster by taking baby steps, I want to make sure that we provide that kind of information. To me, you two are the best of the best when it comes to that.
Kelly Meerbott:
Again, I am not asking you to do the work for white people, but if you could give us some step by step suggestions, that would be great.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Cool. Well first of all, you can join our conversation. Not to self-plug, but-
Kelly Meerbott:
No, please self-plug. Please.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Our [crosstalk 00:36:17] interview is with Robin DeAngelo who wrote White Fragility. For me, it was such a life circle moment within a year of reading her book I was interviewing her, which was just like mind blowing. Quite honestly, we as white people are trying to learn calculus while the schoolhouse is on fire as [crosstalk 00:36:36] wrote about in medium. There’s a lot we have to catch ourselves up on, and as our friend Kevin would say, kind of build a bicycle as we’re riding it. We also can opt into actionable steps and showing up. You can follow From Privilege to Progress on Instagram.
Kelly Meerbott:
I do.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
There’s a [crosstalk 00:36:56] medium called 65 Things White People Can Do and which I can give to you, Kel, to post in your show notes. I love the Me and White Supremacy Workbook, which … Sorry, it was Me and White Supremacy Book. It used to be called the workbook. Kel, do you have this? I’m going to send it to you?
Kelly Meerbott:
No, I don’t. I don’t.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Okay.
Kelly Meerbott:
I’ve seen you talk about it, and I wasn’t ready for it at the time you first talked about it, but I’m ready now.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
All these steps may seem super aggressive, but if people can just put their Air Pods in their ears, you [inaudible 00:37:28]. We talk a lot about, we interview Leila Saad. She was our finale of our-
Kelly Meerbott:
Oh, I saw that. It’s incredible.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
[crosstalk 00:37:35] dive into your subconscious, and that’s where so much of this crap is stored, what I think about black women, what I think about black kids, what I think about white exceptionalism, white centering, cultural appropriation, spiritual bypassing, all of these things. You write all the ugly out to yourself, but certain things don’t come out when you read or listen or watch. Some things only come out when you write.
Kelly Meerbott:
Okay. Yeah, I love it. I love it.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Actionable step.
Aurora Archer:
I think some additional action steps, and Kelly’s going to help you with the name of books because she’s better at this than I am, is I think that one of the biggest first steps for white people is to really understand our history.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Yeah.
Aurora Archer:
That there is a notable list of books, three top books. Understand what the foundation of our history really is, not quite frankly the white washing that most of us got in school or the absence of the history that many of us got in school.
Kelly Meerbott:
I’m going to interrupt you two because I need to tell you this story because it was such an awakening for me. Have either one of you watched Harriett on Prime?
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Yes.
Kelly Meerbott:
Oh my god. First of all, I cried through that whole thing. When I finished watching it, I called my mom and I said, “Have you watched Harriett?” and she said, “No.” I said, “Mom, in school this is what I learned about Harriett Tubman. She was part of the Underground Railroad. That was it.” That was it. I didn’t realize that she kept going back in there and back in there and back in there, and liberating and the way she did it. To me, I started to get really angry because I grew up in South Florida which is a melting pot of cultures.
Kelly Meerbott:
My friend Erin Trent Johnson, who I don’t know if you know her, but she’s incredible too, she does a lot of this work around white privilege in corporate. She asked during this session that I was in, “When was the first time that you had a teacher that wasn’t one of your race?” When I looked and thought about it, I didn’t. Not once. That’s when I started to get really upset because I feel like I was robbed of the reality of what things were. Like you Kelly, I was like, “Oh everything’s equal. Everybody has the same chance. This is a country where everybody’s welcome.”
Kelly Meerbott:
Then when I started digging into this, I was like, “Oh no, there are two Americas.” There’s the one that I’ve been, I don’t know whether it’s whitewashed or blinded or protected or deflected, or whatever you want to … or conditioned, and then there are the ones that Ahmaud and Breonna and Meek Mill and all of these people, these beautiful humans experienced. I mean it doesn’t … in my mind that’s the black eye on our country. That is, the fact that there are two Americas and it’s been allowed to … this kind of systemic racism has been allowed to survive, and knowingly allowed to survive. Let’s add that.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
I was going to say, it’s by design.
Aurora Archer:
Yeah, that’s what Kelly always says, it’s by design. I think that this is, again, when white people choose not to opt in, then those that have designed it and have created it in this fashion continue to perpetuate the separation. It happens amongst us, but it happens within us. It is the foundation of not just everything that’s violent and hateful and dehumanizing that’s happening in our lives, again, that’s the societal impact of it, but the individual impact is that we are a country that is the most numbed out on narcotics and alcohol and with [crosstalk 00:42:01] rate amongst our children that far exceeds other countries.
Aurora Archer:
If we don’t think that this impact is not only having a societal impact on brown and black bodies in the world through the violence and the oppression and the racism they experience every day, then as white people we need to check that that separation is also creating a disembodiment within yourself and within your families.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Yeah, I just want to touch on that real quickly based on what you’re saying, A. When it comes to white fragility, because we can’t say enough about the book, there is a bit of a piece missing in that white fragility is still a traumatized response, that it’s really important for us as white people to be feeling, and I don’t mean like white women tears when your black friend says that you said something racist and you cry and run off just to like keep your position. I’m not saying that. I’m saying when you start seeing Ahmaud on the news and you start seeing the atrocities that are really happening, and you start tapping into what that feels like, that [inaudible 00:43:14].
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Sorry everyone, but white people need to know what’s in it for them. I’m not going to lie. To [inaudible 00:43:22] this journey, I can’t stress enough to you how it is life changing in the best way. When you’re rubbed up against the thing that is the most inflammatory thing you could say or do in a white person’s life, i.e., you’re fucking racist, all the things that come up in that moment, all of the feels, all of the narcissistic anger or numbing or denial or savioring or intellectualizing, all the things that come up, we do those things in every aspect of our life.
Kelly Meerbott:
Yeah. You actually touched on something I say to my clients all the time, and Aurora did as well, and it’s how you do anything is how you do everything.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
[crosstalk 00:44:13].
Kelly Meerbott:
Then the other thing that I’ve been saying to everybody during this time in our lives is that in my work as an executive coach, over 22 years of doing work in corporate and with individuals, the number one thing people are most afraid of is feeling their feelings. The number one thing. That’s why we numb out with food, sex, television, drugs, credit cards, insert whatever you want to insert, instead of sitting there in the discomfort and just feeling it and saying, “Okay, I recognize this. It feels like shame. It feels like guilt. It feels like defensiveness. This is temporary. It’s going to flow through.”
Kelly Meerbott:
Because the more we add that resistance, that’s where the friction comes, and it just for me, I don’t know how it manifests for you two, but any time I resist or ignore something that I need to heal, whatever figurative wound there is inside of me, the deeper it gets rooted into me and the harder it is to excavate that. That’s why when I saw all that stuff about Breonna Taylor, I was like, “Okay, it’s time for me to raise my voice, and this is the way I’m going to do it. This is the first way I’m going to do it.” It was this is based on fear and ignorance. It’s a dehumanization of people, period, and it’s a destruction of a race based on unhealed wounds. That’s what it is.
Kelly Meerbott:
It’s causing separation at a time when we need to pull together closer and be more connected than ever. I don’t know, and I will tell you, I was nervous about this conversation. I mean I love you both very, very much, and I knew it was necessary, but I was uncomfortable. I will tell you, and I’ll be real honest because I own my shit, that I had a situation where I did say something wrong in a group of mixed people, and I was called out publicly at an event, and I cried and walked away. I did, but the difference was, and this doesn’t make it right, was about a week later I went to each person that was there individually and apologized and said, “How can I make it right? I want to know how can I make it right,” and I just shut up and let them talk to me.
Kelly Meerbott:
I wasn’t aware that those tears were part of it, but now looking at it and knowing what I know from you two and digging into this work, which is my work, nobody else’s, that’s part of it, but again, it’s conditioning. I know you two both know Glennon Doyle and I just heard her interview on Brene Brown’s podcast about Untamed and how we’ve all been conditioned. She was talking about her marriage. You get married to a man and you have kids and you do this, and anything outside of that norm is not normal. It’s all conditioning. It’s all conditioning.
Kelly Meerbott:
That’s a long way of saying I think, for me at least, I have a lot more work and healing to do, but I think the first step is to feel what you’re feeling and be honest with yourself.
Aurora Archer:
I think there’s two things I’d like to offer. I’m going to call it first it’s an awakening, and then it’s the courage to continue to do the healing and the unpacking of the wounds through the gift which is in this case racism and white supremacy.
Kelly Meerbott:
Yeah. Who knew we’d be calling racism and white supremacy a gift, but it is.
Aurora Archer:
I would offer that for white people, this journey and this work, it’s like learning how to use a new muscle. The good news/bad news is I was born into this vessel and I’ve been managing and dealing with this all my life, which is guess what, I got my ass into therapy a long, long time ago because [crosstalk 00:48:53] always the deviation from what the norm was, and let’s be clear, the norm is white supremacy and the norm is whiteness, which I was never going to be, no matter how often, how much, how much work I put into perfecting and contorting myself to that norm, I was never going to be that norm because it’s just fundamentally not what I am.
Aurora Archer:
That gift was shown to me early on that prompted an introspection and a reflection that I had to begin a long time ago. Doesn’t mean I’m better or I’m good at it, I’ve just been working at this longer. You are learning how to use a new set of muscles to break through the conditioning and the programming that has affected all of us.
Kelly Meerbott:
Yeah.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
It doesn’t make it easy. It doesn’t mean that I don’t constantly make mistakes, that we don’t constantly have hard conversations with tears, with frustration, and I just continually, I have so much love exponentially with each day for Aurora because it’s not easy to constantly withstand … we’ll be in conference calls and it’s like constantly withstand our lack of awareness is just so damaging, and Aurora’s so forgiving and so loving and so in touch with her own true north, and there’s so many people that, so many white people that are asleep, it can be so overwhelming.
Kelly Meerbott:
Yeah. Here’s what’s coming up for me, and I would love to hear what both of your thoughts are on this. Byron Katie, are you familiar with her work? I’ve been training in her certification since 2013, and every demon that you’ve ever encountered in your life will go, “Hey, here I am. Let’s deal with it.” I remember when I was at her school for the work in 2013 for the first time, and she literally, I figuratively in my mind watched my belief systems collapse like a house of cards, just like this, you know what I mean?
Kelly Meerbott:
One of the things that she says, and I’m just wondering where this plays into what we’re talking about is she says, “Don’t wake the baby,” and what she means by that is it’s not our jobs to wake people up or push them past their own evolution. That’s what gets … that’s where I have a hard time drawing the line, and I’ll give you an example of what I mean. Sometimes I’ll take an interview for a company just to stay sharp, but I always research the company and all of this stuff. There’s this, I’m not going to tell you who it is because this is kind of an embarrassing story for them. It’s a fortune 500 company, they wanted me to be the head of their learning and development.
Kelly Meerbott:
I had an interview with them probably about a year ago, and I’m reading through their mission, vision, values and they’re talking about how diversity, equity, inclusion is really important, and then I go to their C-suite and it’s all white men and I go to their board and it’s all white men. During the interview, the HR person is talking to me and all that stuff, and she says, “Do you have any questions?” I said, “Yes. You have diversity, equity and inclusion listed as a core value, yet your C-suite and your board is all white men. What are you doing about that?” She goes, “Well that is a priority, but …” and I was like, “Exactly. That was exactly …” If you’re watching us, you would see that Aurora, Kelly and I all raised our eyebrows at the same time because we all know it’s bullshit.
Kelly Meerbott:
It was not a priority for them because if it was, we wouldn’t even be talking about it, right? I said that to her and she came out with this PR answer that all of us know because we’re so sensitive and we’re highly connected, was a bullshit answer. It was a PR scripted answer. I guess my question is when do we know when it’s okay to wake the baby I guess, is the question? When do we know is it okay to wake somebody else up? Because part of me is like there’s three types of business, your business, my business and God’s business. I need to stay in my business, but when is it my responsibility in this work to wake one of my brothers or sisters up?
Kelly Croce Sorg:
I don’t know if that’s possible.
Kelly Meerbott:
That’s kind of where I’m at with it.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
I would say the second I want to go to somebody, if I spot it, I got it.
Kelly Meerbott:
Oh, say that one more time Kelly. Say that one more time.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
It’s not mine, but I forget who said it. If I spot it, I got it.
Kelly Meerbott:
Yeah.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
There’s something there that I can go, “Uh-uh,” and in my own well of forgiveness that I’m not doing … I mean here I am, I’ve been on this path for a couple years, I’m going to condone a bunch of white people for being asleep? I am you, you are me. I mean 86% of the population is not going to give a fuck what we are talking about. However, that 14% could be so powerful and so exponentially magical that we have faith that there’s some tide that will turn in just us sharing our truth right now.
Kelly Meerbott:
Yeah, and that’s why I wanted to have this conversation with both of you. Aurora, what are your thoughts on?
Aurora Archer:
Spot on Kelly.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Aw thanks. Cookies.
Aurora Archer:
Spot on. Spot on.
Kelly Meerbott:
Gold star. A-plus.
Aurora Archer:
Here’s what I love, because even Kelly responding that way is such a 180 from how she would have responded to that question two years ago Kelly.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
100%. Right.
Aurora Archer:
Totally. That is, you’re absolutely in the statement, it is not our responsibility to wake anyone up. To own the waking up of ourselves, of our truth and our beingness, because I love, and I’m going to forget who quoted this, my simply being in the room is the revolution. Sharing my truth, Kelly and Kelly, being in your knowing of what you understand now and you standing in that truth, not to wake anybody up, not to do anything to anyone, but to simply stand in that beingness and of your truth and of your power is the revolution.
Kelly Meerbott:
It really is, and I think what hit for me, Aurora, was the fact that I had this flash of what my life would be like without you in it, and I don’t want that life.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
That is not just, because we’ve talked a lot about murdered black and brown bodies, but there’s a weathering of black and brown bodies of having to put up with this bullshit for the last 400 years. Just so many ways that black and brown bodies can die, besides being murdered in cold blood that we are contributing to and that the systems of oppression are contributing to.
Kelly Meerbott:
Yeah, and I’ll tell you another awareness I had. First a Pennsylvania conference for women when Serena, oh my god, why am I … I’m forgetting names because I’m so emotional. Serena, Venus and Serena. Serena was talking about her birth experience and how it was terrible, and I didn’t … again, it was just this awakening that even the medical system, and Aurora and I have somebody in common that I don’t want to reveal this person’s name because I don’t want to reveal anything personal about her, but she had two parents and let’s say she’s in the pharma field. She had two parents as a young woman, as a young black woman who died and her mother was a nurse.
Kelly Meerbott:
She said she was suffering, and she kept saying to the doctors, “I know what I’m feeling. I’m a nurse,” and the doctors kept not listening to her, and this woman, as a 19 year old college student, and this was 20, 30 years ago had to go in and advocate for her mother to make sure she got the proper care. This is a woman who worked in the medical field, and it was a trained professional and knew what was going on, and yet is still being discarded, and I’m using my own words, like a piece of garbage because of what she looked like. To me, that’s just, it’s wrong. We don’t need to intellectualize it. We don’t need to analyze it. It is wrong. It is wrong. It is wrong.
Kelly Meerbott:
I think you’re right Kelly and Aurora, I don’t think it’s my job to wake anybody up. I do think it’s my job to model a way of leadership and behavior that I expect from others, and I love what you said about when you spot it you got it. I say it in a longer way, that if you recognize … you can only recognize in others that what you have in yourself. This is a discussion I can go on for three hours, but I know that all of us have a lot going on, as servant leaders and as [inaudible 00:58:36] the collective consciousness. Let me ask this, as a last question before the rapid fire questions.
Kelly Meerbott:
For your great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandchildren that may be listening to this podcast hundreds of years from now, what kind of wisdom do you have to impart for them? Aurora, I want you to start.
Aurora Archer:
Oh my gosh, that just made me teary eyed. I would first start with saying you are loved, you are love. You are more than enough. You are a child of God, and love them even when they don’t know how to love themselves.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
I’m going to have Aurora tell it to my great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandkids too because that’s it. That’s the core. Not everything is what it appears to be.
Kelly Meerbott:
I’m going to add one thing. You belong. You belong. You belong to us as part of the human race. You belong, and don’t let anybody other you, because you’re part of us, and we’re part of you. Hopefully hundreds of years from now they won’t have to understand that we’re not free unless all of us are free. That’s my hope that that will be a foreign statement to your great-great grandchildren and my great-great-great grandnieces and nephews. Thank you does not seem big enough to the two of you. I owe you a huge debt of gratitude for so many things, not just this podcast. I do. Aurora’s shaking her head, but I do.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
No, we would like [inaudible 01:00:24].
Kelly Meerbott:
We were starting on … you started me on this path. I think I was tap dancing around it for years, but you gently went, “Go,” so here we are. We always like to end with four rapid fire questions, and then we’ll end on a lighter note, but please if you haven’t, subscribe to Opt-In, subscribe to the Opt-In, subscribe to the Opt-In. I don’t care if you subscribe to Hidden Human. Subscribe to the Opt-In. It is life changing. Okay, so here are your four rapid fire questions my four lovely lady angels. Are you ready? What is your favorite comfort food? Aurora first.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Oh, she’s potato chips. She’s salt. I actually default to sweet, so my mom’s sour cream chocolate chip cake.
Kelly Meerbott:
Oh. Ooh, I’ve met your mom. Will she make me one?
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Yes, especially if it’s your birthday. When’s your birthday Kelly?
Kelly Meerbott:
April 2nd.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Oh okay, cool.
Kelly Meerbott:
I’m a true fire sign, like I told you. If I could figure out how to shoot fireballs out of my hands … Well actually that’s probably not a good idea, because I have a short fuse too, but Aurora, what is your favorite brand of potato chips?
Aurora Archer:
Oh, well I like … So my favorite, favorite is vinegar-
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Salt and vinegar.
Aurora Archer:
Salt and vinegar.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
I knew she was going to say that. Salt and vinegar.
Kelly Meerbott:
Do you like Herr’s? Do you like Lays? What do you like?
Aurora Archer:
I vacillate between the stronger crunch or the lighter crunch, but the salt and vinegar I go with the Lays.
Kelly Meerbott:
Okay. Does that have the stronger crunch or the lighter crunch?
Aurora Archer:
Lighter.
Kelly Meerbott:
Okay, what has the stronger crunch Aurora?
Aurora Archer:
The Kettle.
Kelly Meerbott:
Oh, got it. I’ll have to see if my husband can make you some because he’s a chef, so we’ll have to talk about that. All right ladies, what books are on your nightstand?
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Go ahead, yeah.
Aurora Archer:
Arlan Hamilton, It’s About Damn Time. Fabulous book, highly recommend it. I’m three quarters of the way there, and I really don’t even want it to end. I think she’s phenomenal in what she stands for and what she’s doing is incredible. It’s a beautiful book.
Kelly Meerbott:
That’s awesome. I’ll check it out. Kelly?
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Counting the minutes because on my husband’s nightstand, I’m reading next what he is reading, which is The Nickel Boys. Won the Pulitzer for The Underground Railroad last year, won the Pulitzer for The Nickel Boys this year, and I’m super excited to read that.
Kelly Meerbott:
See, I love having smart friends because they make me feel smarter and make me smarter and better as a human. That always makes me happy. What songs are in your playlist?
Aurora Archer:
Literally, on my way here, I was listening to Brenda McMorrow.
Kelly Meerbott:
Okay.
Aurora Archer:
She [inaudible 01:03:24], so I am in the process of getting my 200 hour yoga teacher certification, been practicing chanting with Brenda. She has beautiful albums, and you can find her on iTunes. Just a beautiful magical voice. Brenda McMorrow is 100% on my playlist.
Kelly Meerbott:
Kel?
Kelly Croce Sorg:
Right now, well I haven’t received it yet, but one of my best friends from high school, it’s my birthday tomorrow, she made me mixed tapes 20 years ago and now she makes me Spotify playlists each year. I get like, “Yay,” for that. My theme song, if I could pick it, would be The Brothers Johnson, Strawberry Letter 23.
Kelly Meerbott:
Ooh, I’ll have to listen to that. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of that. Okay.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
[crosstalk 01:04:07] but it’s just like a Funkadelic awesome old school song.
Aurora Archer:
Here’s where the souls are connected. That song was my first 45. Back in the day, if anyone’s listening is old enough, Strawberry Letter 23 was the first 45 I ever saved enough money for to buy and play on my little rickety rackety album whatever, recorder player, whatever they were called back in the day.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
The Brothers Johnson also sang Stomp.
Kelly Meerbott:
Now I’m going to date myself, but I remember my dad, when I was little, it was like two years old, he had a big maroon T-Bird with white vinyl bucket seats, and his 8-track that he would play was Donna Summer Hot in the City.
Aurora Archer:
Yes.
Kelly Meerbott:
I had this old rickety rackety, Fisher Price record player, and I had 45s on it, and I loved them. I still love the cracks and pops and white noise of vinyl. There’s nothing like that. Yeah, I’ll definitely listen to that. Okay, so final question. What are you both most grateful for in this moment right now.
Aurora Archer:
I’m going to go a little bit esoteric on us. I am immensely grateful for this period of time, as hard, as dark and sobering as it has been for so many affected, I also choose to see what an incredible opportunity we are all being given to check ourselves.
Kelly Meerbott:
100% agree. 100% agree. Yeah. Kel, what do you got?
Kelly Croce Sorg:
I think just in this moment, technology in this moment because it can create an intimacy, even though we can’t have it. I just picture all these magical angels just tethering us all together because I mean all these things, I had no idea that they were going to explode in the way that they have, and I think they’ve handled it really, really well, so I’m super grateful for tech. Would I ever say that in my life?
Aurora Archer:
No.
Kelly Croce Sorg:
No. You know that’s coming up right now in this moment.
Kelly Meerbott:
Yes. Yes, it is. I never do this, but I’m going to say I’m most grateful in this moment for both of you and for the fact that you’ve cradled and loved me through this even when I fell down. Right now Aurora, just to dovetail off of what you said, and Aurora’s also, she’s so many wonderful things, but she’s also training to be a Shaman, which I love, and I see Shamans, I get tarot card readings, I do all of that. About a year ago, I had a tarot card reading with someone who I love, her name is Teresa Reed, and she said, “I see a reckoning coming. I see a reckoning coming, Kelly. I don’t know what it is, but it’s on a mass scale. It’s huge,” and now we’re in it and I see it.
Kelly Meerbott:
I see it playing out. I’m just hoping that this universal sift leaves us with all the gold nuggets that will satisfy everybody, and as Sonya Renee Taylor said, stitching a garment that fits all of humanity and all of nature in a way that is more loving, kind and inclusive, and I’m grateful that you two have been the light bearers illuminating the path for many of us, so thank you so much. Now for those people who have not subscribed to the Opt-In and wanted to find it, how do they do that?
Kelly Croce Sorg:
All the major podcast platforms we are on. Over 10. There’s at least 12 that we’re on. From iTunes to Stitcher to Castbox, Spotify, you name it. If you have an iPhone, you already have … I mean there’s multiple, I’ve pulled up their podcast app on their iPhone and started it for the first time. If you have an iPhone, it’s already on there.
Kelly Meerbott:
Yeah, okay. Do you all have a website too?
Kelly Croce Sorg:
You want to go on the Optinpodcast.com, that’ll direct you.
Kelly Meerbott:
Awesome. Like I said ladies and gentlemen and people who identify as ladies and gentlemen or they, you’re all welcome, but if you have the choice to listen to me or to listen to them, go listen to them. I mean really. I know that sounds counterintuitive, but if you want your life changed, listen to these ladies. It is my pleasure to have spent all of this amazing time having this incredible conversation with Aurora Archer and Kelly Sorg. I mean I’m so grateful for the time that we’ve had together. Thank you both for being vulnerable, real and not holding back anything.
Kelly Meerbott:
To our listeners on Hidden Human, it’s my intention and the intention of our team that this podcast inspires you to go out and have authentic conversations, to deepen the connections in your life. Thank you so much for your time, and make it a great day.
Speaker 1:
You’ve been listening to Hidden Human, the stories behind the business leader. If you’ve enjoyed the episode, please subscribe to the podcast on iTunes. To learn more about Kelly and the services she provides, visit youloudandclear.com. Thanks so much for listening, and we’ll be back soon with a new episode.
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